213 replies to this topic

[AnimalisaRam]

randombc, on 18 May 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Nigel De Jong, Marouine Fellaini, Tim Cahill, Scott Parker and Karl Henry I'd argue are all tough but relatively clean tacklers, obviously you have the Cattermoles and Bartons but their pricks

De Jong kicked a guy in the chest without even so much as a yellow card in the WC, if that ain't a tough tackle, what is?!

[blackNwhites]

He broke Hatem Ben Arfa's leg as well. Karl Henry (I think) broke Aaron Ramsey's leg, or was that Shawcross?

[randombc]

blackNwhites, on 18 May 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

He broke Hatem Ben Arfa's leg as well. Karl Henry (I think) broke Aaron Ramsey's leg, or was that Shawcross?

That was Shawcross, I think Karl Henry threatened someone's career though...

[uttoxram75]

blackNwhites, on 18 May 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

He broke Hatem Ben Arfa's leg as well. Karl Henry (I think) broke Aaron Ramsey's leg, or was that Shawcross?

Shawcross. Didn't mean it tho'.

[Cisse]

uttoxram75, on 18 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Shawcross. Didn't mean it tho'.

He never means it. Things just happen for him.

[milkwasabadchoice]

Mikel, Lucas, Parker, Tiote, Song, De Jong are all players who aren't the most gifted creatively but do a job for their sides in being disciplined, putting tackles in and breaking up play (and don't miss too many games through suspension). This gives the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Modric, Cabaye, Arteta and Toure license to attack and create. Big example of this is how much Bayern will miss Gustavo tonight- Kroos will probably have to sit deeper and that'll limit his creative tendencies.
Wouldn't mind one bit if we sold Bailey and brought in someone who could do that and allow Bryson and Hendrick to roam without being caught so easily on the break. For me, Hendrick's got the vision and ability to play as a more attacking midfielder but has been a little bit restricted this season in that we don't have someone to break up the play behind him. If we can get that 'destroyer' in our midfield would be a lot more creative, just through moving personnel into positions that suit their talents more. Bailey's pretty and can be neat but I've seen him bypassed in too many games this season.

[Duracell]

We're not after a tough-tackling CM though, are we?

And this is why I don't buy the "Clough is a non-League manager who wants us to play non-League functional football" thing. I think we're trying to get a team together that can play.

[Leeds Ram]

 sageisback, on 18 May 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

He is third choice behind Bryson and Hendrick. On this seasons form, rightly so. If he isn't keen on a new contract, that suggests there was talk of one. Not everything revolves around NC 'having it in for' players if they are dropped or sold.

Hold on, you said it was a no brainer to sell him be because he had refused a new contract as clough said in an interview, now u say that someone on this forum heard clough hint that he refused a new contract.

So you are backing your argument up on a hint?? Do you not think that had we offered him a contract that he refused this would not be in the press? The rumour was that we were looking to get rid in the last window, maybe clough doesn't see him in his plans, which is fair enough but lets not look for other excuses for this, clough does not rate him.

[PBW Ram]

milkwasabadchoice, on 19 May 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Mikel, Lucas, Parker, Tiote, Song, De Jong are all players who aren't the most gifted creatively but do a job for their sides in being disciplined, putting tackles in and breaking up play (and don't miss too many games through suspension). This gives the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Modric, Cabaye, Arteta and Toure license to attack and create. Big example of this is how much Bayern will miss Gustavo tonight- Kroos will probably have to sit deeper and that'll limit his creative tendencies.
Wouldn't mind one bit if we sold Bailey and brought in someone who could do that and allow Bryson and Hendrick to roam without being caught so easily on the break. For me, Hendrick's got the vision and ability to play as a more attacking midfielder but has been a little bit restricted this season in that we don't have someone to break up the play behind him. If we can get that 'destroyer' in our midfield would be a lot more creative, just through moving personnel into positions that suit their talents more. Bailey's pretty and can be neat but I've seen him bypassed in too many games this season.

Good post and I see what you're saying Milkwas but I was more aiming at the fact that a real tough tackling midfielder - not a "protector" type was becoming a thing of the past, you don't be to be 6ft 3 and built like a bick outhouse to be "protect" the back four.

Interesting pairings you picked out as well but my take on those Mikel - honestly havent seen him get even close to a challenge for the last 10 games. Must be missing something. I'm watching him closely again today and if I'm wrong I'll be back on admitting it. My own feeling is that 7 or 8 times out of ten Mikel puts himself in between players so he can't receive the ball as well - that's the part i'm watching out for today as maybe he just doesnt get himself up for the smaller games.

Lucas and Parker are hard working enough but not exactly hatchet men, In fact Parker could marry my daughter he's so nice. I'd have Parker in any central midfield in the country right now - but he's not a nasty bugger.

De Jong won't get back into the city side on regular basis while toure loure yaya yo is there and Henry - honestly I never thought i would see their names linked to a "hard but fair" type of post.

Cant comment too much on Tiote and Cabaye as I haven't really watched the mags too much, they have had a great season though.

I think slight midfielders will be ok in the near future - especially as the championship gets more PL refs dropping down, as soon as someone leaves the ground with studs facing in any direction - they risk a card.

If I'm a manager I don't want to see my lads go diving in all over he place anymore. It's too risky, you're giving the ref an excuse to get his cards out.

[milkwasabadchoice]

PBW Ram, on 19 May 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Good post and I see what you're saying Milkwas but I was more aiming at the fact that a real tough tackling midfielder - not a "protector" type was becoming a thing of the past, you don't be to be 6ft 3 and built like a bick outhouse to be "protect" the back four.

Interesting pairings you picked out as well but my take on those Mikel - honestly havent seen him get even close to a challenge for the last 10 games. Must be missing something. I'm watching him closely again today and if I'm wrong I'll be back on admitting it. My own feeling is that 7 or 8 times out of ten Mikel puts himself in between players so he can't receive the ball as well - that's the part i'm watching out for today as maybe he just doesnt get himself up for the smaller games.

Lucas and Parker are hard working enough but not exactly hatchet men, In fact Parker could marry my daughter he's so nice. I'd have Parker in any central midfield in the country right now - but he's not a nasty bugger.

De Jong won't get back into the city side on regular basis while toure loure yaya yo is there and Henry - honestly I never thought i would see their names linked to a "hard but fair" type of post.

Cant comment too much on Tiote and Cabaye as I haven't really watched the mags too much, they have had a great season though.

I think slight midfielders will be ok in the near future - especially as the championship gets more PL refs dropping down, as soon as someone leaves the ground with studs facing in any direction - they risk a card.

If I'm a manager I don't want to see my lads go diving in all over he place anymore. It's too risky, you're giving the ref an excuse to get his cards out.

Agree- holding midfielders are becoming less of a hardman type and more of a screen in front of the defence, as Mikel does, with an emphasis on ability to start attacks at the same time, which is why Busquets has been such a success and why Barry is preferred to De Jong at City. Whilst I essentially like Bailey and think with experience he'll be a very good player, I'm not sure he's clever enough to do the job at the minute but his ability is there so perhaps he can learn.
Refs are becoming more strict so brains are starting to be chosen over brawn, but that's why players that can tackle properly are more and more valuable. The 'hardmen' i.e. Cattermole, Henry and Barton are now thugs and liabilities.

[dabber]

For me the prototypical holding midfielder was Makelele. He was certainly not a big hard lug, just incredibly smart positionally and at reading the game and doing the simple efficient thing with the ball to get Chelsea moving forward again. I think Hendrick and Bailey could be more in that mould. Bryson has a bit more mobility and offensive inclination about him

[uttoxram75]

Good discussion...............

I think Hendrick has the ability and physique to do the "Makelele" job at a decent level. If he continues to learn and improve there is no reason why he cannot do that role in the Premiership.

Hope its with us!

[sageisback]

Leeds Ram, on 19 May 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hold on, you said it was a no brainer to sell him be because he had refused a new contract as clough said in an interview, now u say that someone on this forum heard clough hint that he refused a new contract.
So you are backing your argument up on a hint?? Do you not think that had we offered him a contract that he refused this would not be in the press? The rumour was that we were looking to get rid in the last window, maybe clough doesn't see him in his plans, which is fair enough but lets not look for other excuses for this, clough does not rate him.

Bloody hell, you have your knickers in a twist. I said 'he didn't seem keen' not refused. If he has a year to go on a contract and isn't signing another for whatever reason it's a good idea to sell him so we get a fee. No brainer.

Clough signed him and has played him in 3 out of 4 games since he signed. Obviously rates him, but that doesn't fit in with the cynical, anti Clough world view, so hey ho..

[Whoneedshuls]

Let it be let it be whatever will be wil be